The Heretic Project (Quest Name Pending)
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@joe-ilya Thank you. Also in your demo, the look up and down keys would have helped with finding the path!
@Fiendish Yes you can reserve it, I'll list it on the Trello. Though I just noticed that the MIDI fades out for a long while towards the end.
Also right now the teleporters in my map don't work in DSDA, but they do work with Crispy Heretic ofc and I don't know why!
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RESOURCE PACK VERSION 4:
HereticLRP_RSW4.wadSome new textures, a few FLATs, and some replaced music:
TITLE, CPTD, E4M4, E4M9, E5M2, E3M4 (I should really add instead of replace)<!> ATTENTION <!>
This project will now release March 23rd. This is final and won't change. Please submit your maps before March 20th. -
NEW MAP. A replayable action-packed romp. Please let me know what you think!
E4M3
SCT_Cinderblood.wad
SCT_CinderbloodV2.wadAlso on a title for this project I'm leaning towards calling this
THE ULTIMATE HERESY -
Here's a demo on Crispy Heretic: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1VAiJ6eNnLTaNM9Jn_tVMKKHaMl4ugwWa/view?usp=share_link
Awesome opening view toward the volcano, and I especially liked the way the final area looks. This was a really fun punchy map, and the gasbag generators felt like they took the center stage in terms of the gameplay. Excellent job placing them because they always felt simultaneously like a huge threat and a helpful tool.
There's a good amount of resources placed around the map, though I did feel that the cluster of time bombs closer toward the end was overkill, as there were much better means available for handling the final encounter, since the enemies and hostile terrain made them non-ideal to use. Time bombs would have been more useful at the start, but I liked the way the start played as it is. The invuln ring may also be overkill; I felt it was unneeded and would have taken away from the thrill of the ending area had I used it. Visually, the map looks gorgeous, though I felt the paper-thin looking rocks visible at around the 6:40 mark in the successful attempt did detract a little.
I went into the blue portal not realizing that was the exit. I would propose either to add the standard heretic flat that's used to mark exits as well (so that you have the flat AND the portal texture, plus the exit glitter), or else we could establish consistency across the entire wad so that all exits use the blue portal, and the blue portal is only used for exits. What do you think?
All in all, another outstanding, really fun-to-play map! Awesome details too, like the heretic-cute tent and campfire and the grave stones.
Oh, and two final things. 1. I just realized it is possible to run pacifist through the map pretty easily in ~30 seconds. I don't think that's a problem, but just wanted to mention it. 2. the reason that the portals don't work in dsda-doom seems to have to do with there being too many linedefs with actions too close together. I tried setting the linedefs that surround the whole glowing sector to WR teleport, and it worked just fine that way.
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Regarding the name for the project, THE ULTIMATE HERESY gets a thumbs-up from me! -
@Fiendish Thank you for playing! Placing the volcano really put the map together for me, was exciting and fun to admire. Invulv ring seemed nice to have, but (unintentionally) it can also protect you if a gaspod goes in the teleporter so you don't die when using it. I understand it being too much though, I'll keep things as they are for now.
The blue portal should be used for exits (or as a start as if coming from the previous level). Good call on the exit flooring so that should be a consistency too.
Yeah this map is pretty linear but non-linear in the way you want to play through it. Thank you for the explanation about the DSDA teleporters and again for the general feedback thoughts.
I've updated the map now with the fixes and other tweaks/edits:
SCT_CinderbloodV2.wad -
I'll be updating the resources again soon so I'll be taking any requests until tomorrow night. Apologies for the inconvenience. I got like 5 more people signed up to map for this thing!
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Felt inspired to switch my focus more on a crypt-themed map, especially given the new deadline. Here's a WIP shot of a hub area.
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@Fiendish
Awesome. That looks so good! -
@Cuppykeks FDA for V2 of Cinder Blood : cinderbloodv2FDAjoe.lmp
It is painful to move around in this map; between the currents, the various monsters, the gasbags, the bumpy terrain, the lava, and the volcano hazards, it is a sensory overload as I was taken along for the ride, with barely any control over my movement.
I think you should remove the currents and make the floors less detailed/bumpy, as movement in this map is very important, and these two things detract too much from it, when there's plenty going on already.I agree with Fiendish about the time bombs, they are absolutely pointless in this map, it would be better to have an additional Morph Ovum and a Tome instead.
The tree textures look quite ugly with those sharp, flat tops, put a tall grass midtexture over them to make them look more natural.
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@joe-ilya Thank you for playing and your thoughts! I'll see if I can spare some of the floor bumpiness, at least on the bottom part of the map, and help with the other points (as well as remove the time bombs). The currents stay for sure though.
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RESOURCES FIFTH EDITION
HereticLRP_RSW5.wad
A few new textures, and some music too.
I will no longer be accepting requests unless they are uniquely personalized (not from a texture pack) to fulfill your map's vision (pitch the idea to me too). Contact me with what you want and if settled I will give you a texture name for you to hold within your own map and resources. I am doing this so I can spend less time on project management and more time on mapping. And I have to make a lot of maps
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Alright then, now where were we...
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I played through the latest versions of the maps I hadn't done demos/feedback for already. Wrote down a few thoughts below.
@Cuppykeks
Banquet of Flames V2:Here's a demo (not blind) recorded on crispy heretic: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1HlPOQcmSk_gF6WEUcuhs2WV0MsWpndlS/view?usp=share_link
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I really liked the abundance of bombs here and the ability to approach the map in a variety of ways. The detailing and vibrant colors here are beautiful. The secrets were really satisfying too, especially the wings of wrath.
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The ending of the map is so cool! I love the silhouette houses and the floating structure, both the inside and outside of it. Definitely helped give the map a strong sense of narrative, not to mention that it looks just awesome.
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I wasn't able to find 2 enemies. I found all the secrets, so you might want to check to make sure that these last two enemies I missed are killable.
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Overall, this is a fantastic, short and punchy map! I ended up playing through it 3 times in a row due to me being a dummy and dying at the end to crushers or other things I shouldn't have. But it says something that it was still a joy to play the third time in a row.
More minor suggestions:
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There are some places where flying makes the sky look glitched out (didn't show them in the demo). It might be more trouble than it's worth to fix this, though, as you'd have to ensure that the player cannot fly higher than a ceiling with a sky texture in sight.
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The chain texture in the doortracks looks kind of odd to me, since it looks like the chain is pushing up the door. But of course, this is more of a personal preference kind of thing.
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I see now on your previous post that you intended the HOM at the end, but just mentioning that it seemed like a glitch when I saw it, FWIW.
Cinderblood V2: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1rvuDMe4F9-VTv65_awujldPk9j4fuPya/view?usp=share_link
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I also wasn't able to find 2 enemies in this map, so again you might want to verify that they aren't stuck or anything.
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I liked the new secret, but flying does allow the player to reach the edges of the map, which look very off. It might be more trouble than it's worth trying to make them look okay on a map this open, though.
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Forgot to mention before that I really like the combined the mist and water vapor where the water meets the lava!
@joe-ilya
Library Theatre V4:I did record a new demo on crispy heretic, but it unfortunately got desynced somehow. The map still seems great! Anyway, here were just a few thoughts on my more recent playthrough.
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Ammo and items felt much more abundant this time. You probably don't need as many tomes as are placed, but I don't think it hurts here to have more than necessary. Overall, I felt gameplay was balanced and fun; I found no issues here.
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I noticed this time that the windows to the outside close when you start the final battle at the theater. Really cool detail there! Nice chessboard at the start too.
Minor suggestion:
- I like the skylights overall, but some of them look a bit odd because they have too thin of a border. I think they would benefit from having thicker borders if possible, to make the walls/ceilings look like they have some more depth.
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@Fiendish Thank you for the feedback
I might remove that HOM just so people don't keep mentioning it in the future heh :y
Just some project thoughts:
Hopefully there can be at least 1 or 2 more maps with a floating fortress takedown if appropriate (an extremely extravagant take on the ol' exit room with a monster (Disciple of D'Sparil) in it). Would help cement a narrative as a whole.
I kinda want a different name for the project since there's one called Utter Heresy in progress already. The Ultimate Heresy can be an episode title if one comes up.
Also I wanted this MIDI in the resource pack instead of that Chrono Trigger one but couldn't find it then: inori-G2MIDI.mid
My current map is finally starting to pick up again since after I made that cool opening scene. It took me a while to figure out how I was going to continue and fit in ideas I already had initially. Hopefully will progress smoothly henceforth.
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All texture requests open again for the weekend. This is because HW_055 does not tile properly in-engine due to being of 96 width so I should fix that.
Also a small preview screenie since I'm here:
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Here's a completed draft of a map, ready for feedback on gameplay. It's a fairly large, interconnected map with an emphasis on exploration and verticality.
Thanks in advance if you play it. Any feedback would be greatly appreciated, especially regarding gameplay. Let me know too if you think the map is too long. It takes me about 15 minutes to complete, but of course that's with knowledge of the layout. (I should also mention that the detailing is not totally finished yet, so there are a couple rooms that might look a bit barren compared to the rest. But want to get a sense first if I need to cut the map down in size before I spend any more time on that.)
The Druids' Citadel: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1FAhSfPSsbGl9svfo7JoYAY33NVmg22aZ/view?usp=share_link
Note: Don't worry about trying to record an FDA if you end up dying and want to use saves. Overall I don't think it's too hard of a map, but there are a couple battles that could be challenging, especially one at the end.
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@Fiendish I recorded 3 demos, but I only have 2 since I started to save on the third and beat it that time. fd_citadel2.lmp fd_citadel1.lmp Recorded with Crispy-Heretic
First of all.. WOW I love this map. I had a lot of fun with the tense resource scavenging. Great environment, use of Heretic's gameplay, and near the end where the plot elements revealed themselves more definitely makes this an all-time great to me. I wonder if there was more to the cat but I did like it, though kinda wish I wasn't able to shoot past it because I did try to see if that triggered anything.
The ambush setpiece fights, at least the first few did totally eviscerate me and I died at least twice panicking and getting stuck while I was trying to use the time bombs. I also totally turned chicken and ran the first time I got the phoenix rod, though I suspect you wanted to trap me in there from all angles and I just got lucky. In my playthroughs I collected the various artifacts I could and saved them for when I thought I needed them (I'm glad I was able to use the shadowsphere to great effect here). I don't think that planning ahead aspect is a bad thing I do like it, but those fights can get cramped fast and it feels I'll always have to die to it first before I can get a feel for what's happening but even then I feel I just have to get lucky in a savescummy way. If the teleporting monsters were paced slower that could make up for the claustrophobic death traps and give time to process the situation better. As for the last arena I never did get to use most of the area to fight if you intended it to be that way: I just camped in a doorway to spray and pray my way to some breathing room to then run around and clean up the stragglers. It does feel like excess fat though. You can gleam more feedback out of watching my demos I hope.
Time for some pictures I took of things I took note of (mostly errors):
The chains on this lift have a tutti-frutti effect due to the void space on a wall
Personally I'd like this water flow to have a scrolling effect.
I noticed this stained glass wall and I tried to shoot it and break it but nothing happened. I kept hearing something trigger though until I went around the fountain to see the switch. I don't know what it does but I was triggering it by shooting over it.
Not sure if this can be helped but I noticed these monsters in this corner always get stuck here
These wooden pillars aren't aligned like the rest (near the green key door
That's it for the pictures. Another thing I would have liked is a chaos device to bring me back to the start once I had used the yellow key and was ready to proceed to the upper levels.
After losing myself lost in the map in my first few tries (I don't mind this) it did start to be a bit cumbersome to move myself from either the bottom of the map to somewhere higher or just making my way around to wherever the yellow key room was. After playing enough I did familiarize myself with the map much better. I don't know if you want to do anything about that, but it was just my experience when recording the demos. Again the ambush trigger fights could use some adjusting, or at least some difficulty settings. The map took me almost 23 minutes to beat; thank you for the map it was a pleasure to play. -
@Cuppykeks Wow, thanks so much for all the feedback! I really appreciate your taking the time to work your way through it and spell out your thoughts about it in as much detail.
I'll work on an updated version that takes your feedback into account, mainly easing up on the big setpiece encounters, and making it clearer when they're going to be triggered. I think with the last arena, I might just give a free ring of invincibility as well, or else significantly reduce the number of disciples -- in any case, I'll reduce the difficulty one way or another. I'll also see what I can do to streamline traversal in the areas you mentioned.
Again, I really appreciate it!
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Project status update (today's the day of the original release date after all): I haven't updated the resources yet as there haven't been any requests and I've been holding off on seeing if there's anything I want to add as well due to wanting to finish my map first. My current map is almost done; just need to make the final area. Changed title from "Embryology of Cocytus" to "The Ultimate Heresy," thinking it more appropriate as well it can still be the name of the project in the same way you come across the song the album is named after. The map has changed courses a lot as it has gone on. I've been able to relax a bit too since I have a proposition here that I hope I can get some thoughts on:
I'm thinking of this project's release as a "phase 1" of sorts. The project will still wrap up and release as scheduled but if I as well as others are interested in continuing things at a later date this year (after AUGER;ZENITH DM) then we can come back refreshed and able to expand on & finish this project further as the bestest Heretic project ever. I'm treating this as the only time I'll ever be mapping for Heretic and I actually really like it too. I've worked really hard but I'm afraid burnout is starting to settle in. It would also allow me to try recruiting mappers who were interested but couldn't make it at this time, apply polish and feedback from the community, and be more upfront with my expectations for the project as it didn't start with this ambition, although I am also experimenting with ways to manage projects some. Hope you guys can forgive the ride, as least since I promise I'll still get things done! Please let me know what you think.
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@Cuppykeks I would be happy this proposal, and I would also be okay with postponing releasing the set until it feels completely finished. Either way, I am all for putting out the best map set that we can, and if we need more time to make that happen, that would be worth it to me. I can say that if we keep working on it beyond March (whether as a phase 2 or not), I have the interest in making more maps for this beyond the two I've got in progress, as I've really enjoyed working on it so far.
Also, as far as naming the project goes, we might consider something connected to the floating fortresses (maybe something like D'Sparil's Vengeance or Invasion?). That might help to differentiate it more from other wads with "heresy" in the title.
